Doula Momma

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OP (Sunny Side Up), Cervical Swelling and Slow Dilation

Posted by doulamama1 on November 14, 2009

OP (Sunny Side Up), Cervical Swelling and Slow Dilation…These are a few of the issues my last client had. With her permission, I want to talk about her birth. It’s actually a pretty amazing story. In addition to what I mentioned, she also had a 9lb baby with a very large head and managed to get out with only a 2nd degree tear.

So this client had been complaining of back pain for a couple of weeks. She works at a desk so I was worried that her posturing may have aided in her baby positioning himself OP (occiput posterior) or what some people call sunny side up or face up. When a baby is OP, the back of the head, which is the largest and hardest part of the head, digs into the moms back in utero. This sometimes causes chronic back pain. Some moms never feel any back pain at all when their baby is OP. I had talked with her about this and suggested that she do pelvic rocks daily and spend as much time as possible in the open knee chest position. Open knee chest is when mom puts her head and breasts on the floor and sticks her butt up in the air with her knees about hip width apart. Sounds easy but when you are very pregnant it is quite difficult.  I also suggested that she sit on a birth ball that was inflated enough so that her thighs where parallel to the floor in the hopes of relaxing her pelvic floor and encouraging baby to turn. She is quite tall and I don’t think she found the ball very comfortable. I also told her no reclining on the couch.  I feel as if I should have done more to encourage her to encourage the baby to turn but her back pain came and went and she didn’t feel fluttering indicating hands in the pelvic area and I couldn’t see her tummy (She was two hours away from me) to see if she had the dip in the stomach that OP babies often make.  I guess I didn’t want to freak her out with all the optimal fetal positioning techniques when in reality babies that are OP before labor almost always turn before labor or in labor.

This is a baby that is occiput anterior, the optimal fetal position for easier birth…

190px-Smellie_XIV

This is a picture of  an occiput posterior baby. Notice how the back of the head is in the mother’s back…

10929W

This woman, who we will call Alyssa,  began her labor at 4am the morning that she was 41 weeks and 3 days pregnant. At around 5am or so she began to have leaking that she believed was her water.  I joined her at 9:30am. The time line for her birth m my arrival goes as follows…

9:30am: I arrive
Contractions about five minutes apart, less than one minute long
You were breathing through them very well
10:00-10:30am: We walked, contractions started getting longer and more intense
10:30-11:30am: Complaining of back pain, we do pelvic tilts and open knee chest, I worry baby is OP
Breathing well through contractions but growing more intense with each one
You rest in bed for a few contractions
11:30am: Contractions are very intense. Still around 4-5 minutes apart, a minute long.
You are ready to go to the hospital
12:00pm: We arrive at hospital. Staff is busy. We walk for half an hour and take it one contraction at a time. Back pain is  intensifying and you are feeling a lot of pelvic pressure
1:00pm: You are admitted. You are 4cm and 100 effaced and your water is leaking. Baby is at a +1 station. You are monitored for half an hour and the baby looks great. You continue working through each contraction one at a time.
1:45pm: You are taken off the monitor and get into your labor room. Labor is very intense and you labor standing while leaning on the bed for an hour.
3:00pm: Labor is so intense and contractions are coming every three minutes for about a minute and a half. You have a lot of  pelvic and rectal pressure. You are a bit shaky and very hot. We put ice cold towels on you.
Because labor is so intense, the nurse figures you must be very progressed and asks if you want to be checked.
You are 8cm dilated. You are having urges to push.
4:30pm: Contractions continue at 3 minutes apart and about 2 minutes long. Your back pain is much worse as is the rectal  pressure. We try many positions to help complete your cervix. A check shows that you are stlil 8cm. Midwife breaks  your water and your cervix closes to a 5 or 6 and the baby retreats back to a zero station. We talk about the baby possibly being OP but she cannot confirm with exam. We spend the next hour trying to get the baby to turn.
5:30pm: The nurse checks and says you are 9cm with a lip. We spend half an hour getting you in positions to aid dilation.
6:00pm: Labor has become unbearable and you are having urges to push, your back pain is very intense. Midwife checks you and you are 6cm and your cervix is swollen. She again is almost certain the baby is OP. She offers and epidural and you accept. You also have a shot of Nubain to  hold you over until the epidural is placed.
7:00pm: Epidural is in place. You feel pain on one side for an hour or so.
8:30ishpm: You are 10cm
9:30ishpm: You begin pushing. The baby is at a +2/3 station when you being. After an hour is becomes clear that the baby is OP. It is also clear that he has a very large head. You push for another hour holding the squat bar and/or sheet tied to it  while his head molds.
11:30pm: Baby is coming down but getting hung up on the pelvic bone. You push flat on your back with your knees pulled far  back and   apart. He is able to descend past the pubic bone and begins to crown. The doctor uses baby shampoo as  lube and supports your perineum as you push the final few pushes before he is born.
just before
12:00am. Baby is born!!!! He comes out crying and looking around and after being checked out for a
few minutes is brought to you for skin to skin contact. You try to nurse immediately but he was interested just yet.
12:20am: Less than half an hour after being born, your baby is successfully nursing!!!
12:30am: The doctor is finished tending to you and leaves. You and dad bond with your baby.
1:30am: I leave

So the time line is a synopsis and not the birth story with all the details. What I’d like to include in that is that as her back pain intensified and the midwife agreed with me that the baby was probably OP, we began to get Alyssa into every position we could to get the baby to turn. The bed was broken down with the squat bar attached because when she was 8cm we tried to get her to sit on the bed with her legs on the lower portion with her upper body on the bar in a semi squat position in order to put pressure on the cervix to complete it. She didn’t like it because she had so much rectal pressure, so we took the bar off but left the bed broken down. Once the OP presentation because very obvious, we had her lower body on the bottom part of the bed with her upper body on the middle so that she was basically on her hands and knees.  We tried to apply counter pressure but Alyssa didn’t like it. She had not wanted very much massage or touch so we didn’t not try to relieve her back pain that way. She mostly responded to cold on her lower back.

Another point I’d like to talk about is that she was at 8cm for more than two hours before the midwife broke her water.  She had been in active labor for about 13 hours at that point and was ready for things to move along. By this point her labor had become all but unbearable.  I believe that the baby’s OP presentation was making labor much much more painful. She was already beginning to lose control during and even between contractions and I think that even though AROM (artificial rupture of membranes)  was not part of her birth plan, it really did sound like the best idea at the time.  Of course, once it was done and the midwife  felt her cervix close and the baby retract, she had this “OH SH!T” look on her face. And also of course, once it was done the contractions became even more intense.

I am not sure if the midwife breaking the water at 8cm is what caused the  chain of events that followed. If it would have broken on it’s own, the same thing could have happen. I had it happen with another OP baby client. Her bag ruptured spontaneously at 8cm and her cervix went back down to 7cm and the baby retracted from +1 to -1/0 station. I also think that after having been at 8cm for two hours with transition strength contractions after having labored all day, that Alyssa was running out of both steam and motivation, understandably.

The former OP client I mentioned who went from 8cm to 7cm took SIX FULL HOURS to get from 8cm to complete.  She had no option for an epidural as she was in a Korean hospital that did not offer them outside of business hours. The doctor was also performing c section so she didn’t have anyone offering to end the labor for her and her cervix wasn’t swelling either.  She managed and made it through it but it was incredibly difficult. I have no doubt that in that scenario that Alyssa could have continued her labor without an epidural.

What made Alyssa’s labor even more difficult was to spend two hours at 8cm with pushing urges, eventually get told she was 9cm and still have pushing urges and then learn that she was 6cm with a swollen cervix. I think that hearing this was incredibly difficult for her.  Maybe there were too many vaginal exams, maybe she didn’t have to know all of that was going on with her cervix but the fact is, she was pushing involuntarily even at only 6cm.

I have read that premature pushing does not always make a cervix swell and that her swelling was probably more the result of fetal positioning. It could also be a combination of the two, it’s hard to say. At any rate, with the intensity of pain she was feeling the midwife thought it best that Alyssa get an epidural to relax enough to be able to dilate. I was incredibly worried about this because it would be hard to get the baby to rotate with the epidural but I really do believe that at this point it was necessary. Her cervix wasn’t going to get a break and she was in too much pain to be able to invert her with open knee chest to pack the baby out of the pelvis some.

The midwife was right, the epidural helped and she dilated quickly. As the time line mentions, she pushed for nearly two and a half hours. The head was large and had a lot of molding at birth. He did get hung up under the pubic bone but the McRoberts maneuver, flat on back, knees far apart and up as possible dislodged him and within a few pushes he was out.

The most amazing part of this birth is that mom had only a second degree tear. OP babies are often associated with a higher incident of third and forth degree perineal tears and considering the size of this baby as well, I think this mom was incredibly lucky. I think that the fact that Alyssa had a successful vaginal delivery is a little bit of a miracle. We had THE BEST nurse on staff that day who helped me encourage Alyssa to move through her labor before she got the epidural. We had her doing a lot of things she didn’t want to do but she trusted us and we helped her and she did it.  All of these things helped, I really believe this. They helped her baby move down so that when she did get the epidural, labor continued to progress.  The support continued after the epidural in that we continued to help her move to help the baby move down.   The woman used a squat bar to push with an epidural, THAT is a feat in and of itself.  It took three of us (nurse, dad, me) to support her through it but she totally did it.

Here are some facts that I found regarding OP babies…

  • The incidence of persistent occiput posterior babies at delivery is about 5.5% overall

  • With a persistent posterior, both first and second stages are prolonged (Ponkey et al). However, longer second stages do not in themselves cause worse maternal or neonatal outcomes; in one study, as long as the fetus was stable, the second stage could continue without harm to mother or baby (Kuo et al).
  • The likelihood of cesarean section or instrumental delivery (forceps or vacuum extractor) is greater when there is a persistent posterior position; in fact, the 5.5% of persistent posteriors account for 12% of all cesarean deliveries performed for dystocia (Fitzpatrick et al).
  • Persistent posterior positions are associated with an increased incidence of premature rupture of the membranes, oxytocin induction and augmentation, epidural analgesia, chorioamnionitis, , episiotomies, severe perineal lacerations, vaginal lacerations, excessive blood loss, and postpartum infection (Pearl et al, Ponkey et al).
  • Worse, there is a sevenfold increase in the incidence of anal sphincter injury, that is, third- or fourth-degree perineal lacerations (Fitzpatrick et al). Babies delivered from the posterior position were more likely to have Erb’s Palsy and facial nerve palsy than those delivered from the anterior position (Pearl et al)
  • Occiput posterior babies often times cause a premature urge to push (pushing before 10 cm dilated)
  • Occiput posterior babies can cause cervical swelling due to the hardest part of the head bearing down unevenly on the cervix. Cervical swelling can cause a stall in dilation or not allow the baby to descend enough to be pushed out despite the mother’s best efforts.

This study also explains the implications of epidurals with OP babies…

Epidural Analgesia Linked to Increased Risk of Occiput- Posterior Babies
Lieberman, E., Davidson, K., Lee-Parritz, A., & Shearer, E. (2005). Changes in fetal position during labor and their association with epidural analgesia. Obstetrics & Gynecology, 105 (5, Part 1), 974-982. [Abstract]
Summary: This prospective cohort study used periodic ultrasound examinations during labor to evaluate changes in fetal position and their relationship with epidural analgesia. The researchers sought to determine whether epidural analgesia is responsible for higher rates of fetal malposition (occiput-posterior (OP) or occiput transverse (OT)) or whether women experiencing labor with a malpositioned baby have more painful labors and are therefore more likely to request epidural pain relief. A total of 1562 nulliparous, low-risk pregnant women were enrolled in the study.The researchers found that the position of the baby (occiput anterior (OA), OP or OT) at the time of enrollment (in the early part of active labor) predicted position at birth poorly. For instance, of the women with an OP baby at birth, only 31% had a baby in the OP position at the initial ultrasound scan. Similarly, sonograms done later in labor were also poor predictors of position at birth. The data demonstrated that changes in fetal position were common during labor, with 36% of participants having an OP baby at the time of at least one scan. More than one-half of the women who gave birth to a baby in the OP position never had an OP baby at any ultrasound assessment in labor. Overall, 79.8% of babies were born in the OA position, 8.1% were OT, and 12.2% were OP at birth.

Epidural analgesia was strongly associated with delivery from the OP position: 12.9% of women with epidurals gave birth to babies in the OP position versus 3.3% of women without epidurals (relative risk 4.0, 95% CI 1.5-10.5). Transverse position was not related to epidural use. In a statistical model that controlled for various medical and obstetric factors that could affect outcomes, epidural use was still associated with a 4-fold increase in the risk of OP birth.

The data suggest that the association between epidurals and OP babies is not because women in labor with an OP baby are more likely to request an epidural. Women who received epidurals were no more likely to have OP babies at prior to or at the time that the epidural was administered. Furthermore, women with OP babies in labor or at birth reported the same degree of pain as those with OA or OT babies and were no more likely to report “back labor,” which is commonly thought to be related to the OP position. Finally, women with OP or OT babies at birth were much more likely that those with babies in the OA position to give birth by cesarean section, with 6.3% of OA babies born by c-section versus 64.7% of OP and 73.8% of OT babies (p<.001).
Significance for Normal Birth: Epidural use increases the risk of instrumental (forceps or vacuum) delivery in first-time mothers. Experts have proposed various reasons for this association, including diminished urge to push and changes in the tone of the pelvic floor muscles that inhibit proper rotation of the fetal head. Letting the epidural “wear off” has been thought to increase the likelihood of unassisted vaginal birth, however, this systematic review calls into question that common practice.
In normal birth, there are complex hormonal shifts that help labor progress and facilitate delivery. The laboring woman produces natural endorphins that help her manage the pain of labor. Her ability to move freely and assume a variety of positions while pushing work in concert with these hormonal changes. Epidural analgesia numbs the sensations of birth, and the production of natural endorphins ceases as a result of the disruption of the hormonal feedback system. When the epidural is discontinued, the woman’s pain returns but her natural endorphins may remain diminished and therefore her pain may be greater than if the epidural had not been given in the first place. Furthermore, when an epidural is administered, the woman is usually confined to bed and attached to fetal monitors and an intravenous line. The woman and provider may become accustomed to laboring in the bed attached to machines. When the epidural is discontinued the restrictions! on her movement may persist. Under these conditions, it is likely that the impact of an epidural on normal birth may outlast the epidural itself.

Ann Tumblin also sent me this regarding OP (face up) babies. It was done by Penny Simkin who is basically the mother of all doulas. It is very informative so if you have ever had an OP baby and are nervous about it a second time, I highly recommend you taking a look at it.

I believe that Alyssa’s birth outcome was the combination of her determination and trust that we were supporting her in every way we could and we were. I was sore the next morning which isn’t saying much compared to how she felt but more of a testament to the work I was doing. We were incredibly lucky to have the staff that we had and  I also believe that if any piece of the puzzle had of been missing that her birth story would be very different. I think the point that I want to make about her birth is that if a mother is supported completely and if epidurals are not done too early that even very difficult births can have a great outcome. Mom is satisfied with her experience which is, other than healthy baby and mom, the best thing.

If you had an OP baby, please share your experience with us.

17 Responses to “OP (Sunny Side Up), Cervical Swelling and Slow Dilation”

  1. mamaseoul said

    Congratulations to Alyssa and her team! What a miracle! Without her committment and the support of the team she would have had a c-section for sure.

    • doulamama1 said

      I think you are right. I almost cringe saying it but if her circumstances would have been any different she most likely would have. I’ll tell you, I was worried for her during the birth, she had me all kinds of nervous!

  2. Mommy Cha said

    This was such an eye opened for me! This sounds so similar to my birth experience except that my doctor and hospital staff were not as willing to work on options. After 12 hours with only 1 cm increase in dilation to 4 cm and excruciating back labour I asked for an epidural. Unfortunately in the Korean system I was to heavy(over 90kg) to have an epidural and was forced to have a C-section.
    Reading this birth story really gave me hope that my next pregnancy will end in a VBAC.

    • doulamama1 said

      Ok Mommy Cha, over 90kg i s the cut off for epidurals? That is only 198lbs! At full term with my son I was 214lbs. Now granted, I gained 65lbs which is ridiculous and excessive but that would have risked me out for an epidural had I wanted one. I too had a c section but I had a spinal for anesthesia. Would I have had general because of my weight?

    • doulamama1 said

      Also, I am sorry that you did not have the support or the options. I know you can totally VBAC next time. I am going to be blogging about my own experience as I just found out that I am pregnant again. I am exploring my options to birth here in Korea with Dr. Chung in Apjugeong. I hope that some of the info is useful for you when the time comes. And also, HIRE A DOULA! It doesn’t have to be me ;) just hire someone and utilize Karen as much as you can!

  3. doulamama1 said

    This is a comment submitted by Lanae, an internet friend, who came to me during her second pregnancy for some advice because her doctor recommended she have a cesarean. She had an OP baby the firs time and suffered a 4th degree tear. This comment is in response to the post “Avoiding a Tear After a Prior Episiotomy”. She commented there because even though she didn’t have an epi, the fourth degree tear left substantial scar tissue. This comment is relevant here in that she experienced what I am so glad my client did not.

    With my first pregnancy my son was born face up. Because he was face up there were some problems during delivery. He got stuck on my bone and once he got free he literally shot out of me. I ended up with a 4th degree tear and a horrible recovery.
    I found out I was pregnant with my second when my first was 10 months old. My doctor’s told me that I should have a c-section because of how I delivered my fist son. They were worried that I would tear again. They used a lot of scare tactics to try and persuade me that I needed a c-section. And they worked at first. I came across Amy’s blog and started to ask question and get informed. I realized I didn’t need a c-section I just needed to know different things that would help the baby to get in the right position.
    October 2nd at 2:30 am I woke up not feeling too good. I told my husband that I thought I might be in labor. We laid on the bed for a little while to time the contractions, they were about 5 mintues apart. Once I was sure it was the real thing I got up and started to walk around (remembered your post about getting up). My husband and I got our stuff together so we would be ready to head to the hospital once the contractions were closer together. We left the house around 4:45ish. On the way there I was timing the contractions again and they were about 2 minutes apart. We got to the hospital and they made me sit in a wheelchair while my husband filled out all the paperwork. We walked up to labor and delivery, which took a little bit of time becuase I had to stop to lean on the wall every couple minutes. We arrived at L&D at 5:15, they weighed me and made me pee in a cup. My husband gave the nurse our birth plan. They had to hook me up to the fetal monitors just to get a reading to make sure things were okay and then they were going to take them off. The nurse checked me and said that my cervix was almost gone (at the time I wasn’t sure what she meant). I figured we would be there a few more hours before things got going, but I was wrong. I started to feel a lot of pressure so I had my husband go tell the nurse. She came in and told me the doctor was on the way so try to wait til she got there. She had me breathe fast during my contractions so that I wouldn’t push, but after about 3 of them I told her I had to push on the next one. The next contraction came and I pushed, which broke my water. After my water broke I could feel the baby’s head so I pushed again. The nurse told me to try and wait to push since I had tore so bad last time, they wanted to allow me to stretch but I couldn’t hold back. On the second push my son’s head came out and on the third push his body came out. He was born at 5:57. The doctor got there right after my placenta came out. I ended up with a superficial second degree tear, which was much better than the fourth degree one I got previously. I had very little pain and recovery was a breeze.
    Just because you tear bad once doesn’t mean you’ll tear bad again.

  4. MommaMegan said

    Amy, the story of Alyssa is almost an exact replica of what happened to me when Jackson was born. If I had been more educated at the time I would have known that he was OP from the description of the belly that you gave. That is the exact way that my belly looked. In fact, everyone would comment that they were surprised I was having a boy because I was ‘carrying high’ when infact it was just his positioning. The back pain and loss of control that you described Alyssa having during labor again is a description of me. I also ended up with an epidural when it was my plan to labor naturally. I am very thankful that I was able to push to get Jackson to change positions during delivery, but I still ended up pushing for 2.5 hours because the of epidural I didn’t have enough feeling. I also ended up with an episiotomy because I refused the forceps and vacuum and my OB felt that I was running out of energy to push. I have learned so much through your blog and other infomation that I am hoping to avoid another OP baby in the future!

    • doulamama1 said

      Megan,
      Thanks for sharing your story. OP births are TOUGH. I am glad you were able to vaginally deliver but I know how had it was for you both before the epidural and even after with 2.5 hours of pushing. I am sorry that you had an episiotomy. I am glad that you are finding useful info to hopefully prevent another persistent OP baby. There definitely are things you can do to get the baby to turn both prior to labor and during. Good luck next time!

    • doulamama1 said

      And also, the doc didn’t ask to use forceps or vacuum with Alyssa but the vacuum extractor was brought out and laying on the table. I am not sure that she ever saw it but it was on stand by. Thankfully this doc was not episiotomy happy or she would have had one. Like I said before, the stars aligned on this one!

  5. Desiree J said

    Wow, this was an enlightening post. I read it this morning and my jaw dropped open. I had a very similar labor with my son that ended in a c-section after being “stuck” at 8-9 cm for several hours. I say 8-9 cm because at one point the dr checked and said I was complete except for a cervical lip and then then the next time I was only 8 cm again… let me tell you those are words I never want to hear again! I had no idea you could progress backwards!

    Amy knows my birth story but only recently did I mention that my son was OP… wanting an unmedicated birth that ended in a c-section was rather traumatic for me and I blocked a lot of it out, until I recently became pregnant again and ordered all my labor / delivery records for my new doc to allow me to VBAC. Several key words jumped out at me – OP, prodromal labor, PROM…

    There were several clues that I missed before labor began – the fluttering in the lower part of my stomach (I could feel kicks up high but punches below my navel). I had a desk job and sat at least 8 hours a day. I also spent about 2 hours a day on the labor ball when I got home (wish I’d had it at the office). I avoided reclining in any position because I heard it can lead to malpositioning (my big fear was breech) but dr said baby was head down…

    I dreaded being weeks overdue – like all women in my family – so you can imagine I was anxious to get that baby out within a reasonable amount of time! I did tons of pelvic tilts even while at work and also on the labor ball. My stomach was also odd shaped – you mentioned a “dip” and I’d like to see a diagram to make sure, but my stomach was “odd shaped” if that makes sense – definitely not your typical basketball preggo tummy. I started dilating at 37 weeks but progress was slow and I managed to be 3 cm and 75% effaced when my water broke at 9 am – I was 41 weeks 6 days. There was yellow meconium. I wouldn’t have headed straight in even though I was “supposed to” per hospital policy except that I already had a 10 am appt. When I arrived they immediately switched me to the on call dr, who was my least favorite and not supportive of my natural birth plans like my doc had been (she was going to let me go 43 weeks if baby continued to look good on the monitors, knowing I wanted to avoid induction).

    The hospital dr on call insisted on starting pitocin to “throw me into labor” when my water broke (didn’t know PROM was a clue to OP either til I read this) and I didn’t realize I could refuse pit even though I was devastated (in my mind, induction and epidural were the worst case scenario. A c-section was not even on my radar). After several hours hours on pitocin, I was still 3 cm. The dr came in and broke a second bag of water at 4 pm (7 hours after PROM) – this time the meconium was nasty green… it still took me forever to get to 4 cm, then 5, but contractions were instantly painful after the water broke. Oddly, though, ALL the pain was in my back – I never felt pain in my belly during the entire labor but my back was KILLING me. I began to doubt my ability to “do this” and had my mother come in the room about 6 or 7 p.m. She applied constant counter pressure to my back which was my only sense of relief. Also at some point after 5 pm the nurses changed shifts and the new shift allowed me to move around, so I made them drag out the labor ball and I sat like a rag doll on it with my head on the bed in front of me. I felt lots of rectal pressure and the urge to push from 6 cm… I remember my mom asking if I got to push when I hit 7 cm, LOL… I guess it’s been a while since she had children (5 natural births, including a VBAC, and 1 c-section, blessed woman). I had an early transition that started between 5-6 cm with double peaked contractions that were 60-90 seconds long and 2 minutes apart (they had been 2 min apart all afternoon). I was not getting a break and was exhausted. Surprisingly I went from 6-8 cm in an hour and then 8 cm to the “lip” within 30 minutes or so after that, only to drop back to 8 cm and never make more progress (it was at this point that the nurse told me the baby was “posterior”). The baby never got past +1 station.

    After 16 hours of labor, I decided to cave and ask for the epidural to help me relax. I was relaxing as much as I could, but I had stopped dilating at all for several hours. The baby’s hb was up and down and I was on oxygen a lot of the time. I actually liked the oxygen – it helped with the pain. The dr said it was too late and I needed a c-section. I begged for another hour. He agreed. 30 minutes later the baby’s hb deceled badly and they rushed in and dragged me into the OR. I got one shot for the spinal and fortunately it worked. Long story short, my 9 pound, 15 inch head son was “stuck” – he looked like a baby from the conehead factory when he was born. It took drs 11 minutes to tug and pull him out (rather than the 30-60 seconds they told me) and they had to use forceps which scraped his face.

    I often wonder if I had decided to get an epidural earlier (at some point after the 8 cm stall) if I would have dilated fully and gotten a vaginal birth… possibly with a huge tear, which is also terrifying, or most definitely an episiotomy.

    Thank you for this post and for the info that nearly 65% of OP babies are born by c-section… honestly, it kind of makes me feel better. :) As you know, I kicked myself over my c-section for a long time until you gave me permission to stop. ;o) At the time I was in labor I was more worried about dilating and avoiding an epidural than about positioning – he was head down, and my mom had delivered several OP babies, right? I wish I had been more educated about getting him to move positions… or the dr had tried turning him (I was OP but the dr successfully turned me).

    Anyway, I know a lot more now and will be entering L&D next time with much more information. Sorry for the comment of epic proportions here… I’m not known for being concise… ;o)

    • doulamama1 said

      You made so many points that I want to touch on, I hope I remember everything. Yellow meconium with PROM indicates either prior fetal distress or baby just had to poop. Alex was a 42 weeker, I think he just had to poop. Yellow means old by the way so would have still been ok to stay home most likely. Sounds like you were doing everything right prior to labor to give your body the best chance but there are positions that you can do that will make an OP baby turn. There are also rebozo techniques. The key this time for you is recognizing it earlier and working daily. I would also recommend prenata chiropractic care. Look for someone trained in the Webster method. The adjustments are such that it opens your pelvis to allow maximum space for your uterus which in turn gives baby as much room as possible to rotate. You should start asap as it takes a while for things to ’stick’. I would also get a prenatal massage therapist who can work on helping release your pelvic floor, losening the muscles to allow maximum room. Charge it on your credit card, cut off your cable. whatever you have to do, these two things are that important.

      I think learning stats on birth scenarios can be very healing. The more we can all learn about our body and it’s ability and the issues that can happen and how to correct them, the more confident we become. It is not that something was wrong with your body, it is that your baby, for whatever reason and also for one that you did not cause, was in a bad position. I think that is something that you really need to believe because with that self forgiveness you will develop more confidence with your VBAC. Keep reading and talking and GO READ THOSE BOOKS I KEEP TELLING YOU TO READ!

      Also, great point on head down is not good enough. I cannot stress this enough. I tell my clients this and I try to give them the info they need. There is a fine line because I do not want to freak peopel out and sometimes there truly is nothing you can do. Alyssa’s baby is proof. He.was.not.moving. So maybe we could have done more before labor but there is not guarantee that he would have turned then. Sometimes, they just won’t. Period. At that point we have to do the best we can with what we have been dealt and like I said before, in her case, she was truly supported the way a laboring woman should be. Maybe things would have been different for you otherwise but there are many pluses to your story, like avoiding a 3/4th degree tear like you mentioned which was also very probably. Again, Alyssa got lucky there.

      As far as wishing you’d have known more, I DID know more and I still had a face first. mentum transverse presentation that was a vaginally impossible delivery. I have since learned that rebozo sifting could have resolved the face first presentation, but again, no guarantee and no way to tell.

      You are getting there Desiree, I can see it, baby steps but getting there ;) I am so proud of you.

  6. Desiree J said

    Watch me call you during my next labor and have you walk me through the Rebozo on the phone, lol. I read about that on spinningbabies.com and I am on it! :)

  7. Desiree J said

    P.S. Currently reading Hypnobabies; Ina May is next on the list. :)

    • doulamama1 said

      The Thinking Woman’s Guide is the one I am really houding you about. Maybe Birth Without Fear also ;)

      OMG, I so need to teach James rebozo. A lot of this stuff is stuff you do before labor so that you don’t start labor with an OP baby.

      • Desiree J said

        TTWG is the one my mom has… I’m picking it up tomorrow. Yes, James is really good at practical maneuvers and OMT therapy too. :) He just treated my shoulder today. Are there any sites with video on how to do Rebozo? I guess I could look that up. Maybe spinningbabies… can’t remember.

  8. Susan said

    I’m glad I happened upon this post! It made me feel better about my birth experience. I delivered a sunny-side-up baby vaginally with a lot of medical intervention in June of 2008. I WISH I’d had such an amazing support team during my delivery, but sadly I didn’t.

    • doulamama1 said

      Hi Susan,

      Thanks for stopping by. I wish you would have had an amazing support team as well, I truly believe it makes a HUGE difference. I am glad you were able to vaginally deliver. I hope your recovery was not too bad and I hope in the future you are able to be proactive with any OP babies you may have.

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